> > I am struggling to see what actual question, or actionable request that
> > is relevant in the context of Fedora, is hidden in ...
> Matt's email from Friday seems to suggest we can't ask questions about
> any free software organization, even on other sites that are not
> syndicated to Planet Fedora.
I don't see where Matthew's email on Friday states you can't ask
questions about other organisations. It states you can't attack other
"communities or individuals" to quote:
"At the same time, Fedora is not the place for attacks on other
communities or individuals, via mailing lists or public blog posts."
And I think that is a completely legitimate request. I won't debate it
any further as I was not involved in the decision nor have I read the
post (nor actually care to do so).
> If an organization is deleting people at Christmas or during their
> vacations, it seems like they don't recognize how much work those people
> put in throughout the year (and decades) prior to that. If they thank
> some people while removing other peoples' names, is that organization
> really running on the same principles as Fedora? If Matt is defending
> that organization blindly, simply because they are a free software
> organization, then it implies Fedora doesn't value the contributions of
> those volunteers either.
I don't see Matthew defending that organisation, policies of posting
on Fedora planet around attacking are quite different to him defending
an organisation and I my interpretation of his email is that he was
purely stating Fedora's policies and I didn't extrapolate that to
defending the organisations.
I also don't see what those other organisation's actions have to do
with Fedora. We're certainly not perfect, there has been things happen
by automated scripts/cron job in Fedora on unfortunate dates in the
past and the issues around those were manually reified at a time after
it once the owners of the process realised what had happened. We also
have processes to deal with issues that arise in other means, and from
my time in the community they have been mostly effective.
But that being said I don't see that what other organisations do, and
whether it's automated process or intentional by an individual, has to
do with our policy about not attacking communities or individuals, by
all means call them out in the forums suitable to that organisation. I
don't see how attacking, (you're free to disagree with whether your
post was an attack or not, I'm not interested in that definition, the
discussion there happened elsewhere and I trust the people who decided
the criteria) the other organisation in the Fedora space is relevant
to Fedora.
> Likewise, if Fedora is maintaining a list of names in a Git repository
> and that is used to justify an attack in LWN, it contradicts a lot of
> the practices described in the other sub-thread about badges, cookie
> karma, happiness packets, etc.
Your extrapolating of hypothetical scenarios.Believe me if I was aware
that was going on I would make sure it ceased to continue to happen,
as would a LOT of people in the community. I have been involved in
Fedora from the outset and people in this community from the top to
the bottom are not backwards in coming forwards to those things.
Hypothetical lists when it pertains to the Fedora Community are all
very well but unless there's explicit evidence that takes them from
hypothetical to reality I don't see a need to discuss it to any more
to death than it already had been. Fedora over the years has been far
from perfect but I feel we do pretty well in maintaining balance and
allow people, such as yourself on all these threads, to express a
reasonable and varied opinion and it's fairly rare that people have
their privileges revoked, and at least in all the cases I'm aware of
it happening I feel it was justified.
> More concisely, these things feel like experiments in gamification and
> shaming rather than real relationships.
I'm sorry? You're extrapolating two completely unrelated things and
attempting to tie them together with broad sweeping statements. I
don't see what awarding badges, karma or "happiness packets" has to do
with attacks, other than to divert attention away from the later.
> I also asked specifically about Fedora's participation in the
> discussions at SFSCon 2018, partly because it is behind the Linux
> Journal paywall and Fedora is normally more open than that. Even if
> Fedora wasn't involved in the discussions about making dossiers on
> volunteers, it would be interesting to know about any positive or
> constructive things in that round-table.
I'm personally not aware of any Fedora representation nor do I see any
listed in the presenters list. Looking through the links you provided
I don't see a reference to a round table (unless it's in the video,
and I don't have 35 min to watch that) and generally Fedora as a whole
has not been particularly pro FSF (we pulled out of sponsoring a US
conference due to their keynote speaker). I also don't see any of
that is relevant to this thread other than you trying to drag us back
to the discussion that has already been done over well and truly in
other threads.
I don't see what any of this thread has to do with the actual issue at
hand. I would ask the list moderator to lock the thread, I don't see
it's constructive what so ever.
Peter
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