Saturday, September 24, 2016

Re: Hebrew translation plural form change request

An admin...  you mean someone from Infra?  Or you mean someone like Noriko?
don't know, actually... someone who is able to introduce changes on Zanata.

Thanks,
Niv

2016-09-23 22:36 GMT+03:00 Sylvia Sánchez <lailahfsf@gmail.com>:
Hi!

An admin...  you mean someone from Infra?  Or you mean someone like Noriko?


Cheers,
Sylvia



On 22 September 2016 at 21:06, ניב באר <bloop93@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sylvia,
Bug opened:

problem is, it seems to be targeted at the Hebrew team coordinator, but I think an admin is needed for introducing this change) 

Also, thank you again Rafal, much appreciated.

2016-09-22 20:33 GMT+03:00 Sylvia Sánchez <lailahfsf@gmail.com>:

Or a bug?  I think Bugzilla fits better for this.


Cheers,
Sylvia



On 22 September 2016 at 11:33, Rafal Luzynski <digitalfreak@lingonborough.com> wrote:
Ping! Can we have this change introduced, please? For the reminder,
a formula like this is needed for Hebrew language globally:

    nplurals=3; plural=n==1 ? 0 : n==2 ? 2 : 1;

Should a ticket be filed somewhere? Thank you in advance.

Rafal


16.09.2016 01:17 Rafal Luzynski <digitalfreak@lingonborough.com> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you, Niv. For me it's clear that we should introduce the
> dual number in Hebrew globally and not introduce the "many" form.
> It will be introduced only if it turns out to be needed.
>
> Please note that what I write here is just my kindly suggestion,
> not the decision. Can we ask the Zanata administrators and/or
> developers to introduce this change, please?
>
> Regards,
>
> Rafal
>
>
> 15.09.2016 11:23 ניב באר <bloop93@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > (please ignore my last 3 messages - I was just me having trouble sending
> > this
> > message - here is the complete message)
> >
> > >now I'd suggest this one as more readable:
> > >
> > > nplurals=3; plural=n==1 ? 0 : n==2 ? 2 : 1;
> > >
> > >Niv, is this order of the translated strings what you want:
> > >
> > >msgstr[0] "Singular form"
> > >msgstr[1] "Plural form (including zero)"
> > >msgstr[2] "Dual form"
> > >
> > >Can we have this formula for now?
> >
> > That's great, thank you.
> >
> > >Now it's not clear to me what you mean about the "many" form.
> > >You wrote that it is correct not to use this form but it would
> > >be nicer to have it. If it would be nice then let's be nice,
> > >using more plural forms is not beyond our abilities!
> >
> > as using the regular plural form is correct (seem natural to the user*),
> > it will only add unneeded extra complexity,
> > so we'd prefer to leave it for now.
> > meanwhile,
> > projects who want can do it manipulating the .po file header (as GNOME
> > Software did)
> > for overall standard,
> > we can always turn over the world again at later time :)
> >
> > >But for now I don't understand where the "many" form should be used:
> > >* for the numbers: 20, 30, 40, ..., 100, 110, 120, ...
> > >or
> > >* for the numbers: 11, 12, 13, ..., 99, 100, 101, ...
> > the latter, for the numbers: 11, 12, 13, ..., 99, 100, 101, ... (n>10)
> > but again, using the regular plural form is correct*.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Niv
> >
> > *user reading in hebrew the sentence "2 days ago" translated as "לפני 2
> > ימים"
> > will get the filling this sentence is not natural and should be "לפני
> > יומיים"
> >
> > user reading in hebrew the sentence "20 days ago" translated as "לפני 20
> > ימים" will continue reading without paying attention that the form "לפני 20
> > יום" exists as well
> >
> > 2016-09-15 2:19 GMT+03:00 Rafal Luzynski <digitalfreak@lingonborough.com
> > mailto:digitalfreak@lingonborough.com >:
> > > > 14.09.2016 13:30 ניב באר <bloop93@gmail.com mailto:bloop93@gmail.com >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just to make sure,
> > > > We are requesting to add the rule for dual form.. the other rule can
> > > > be
> > > > ignored.
> > > >
> > > > 0 : n==1 : singular form
> > > > 1 : n==0||n >2 :plural form
> > > > 2 : n==2 : dual form
> > > >
> > > > We do not actually need the many form for the translation to be
> > > > correct.
> > > >
> > > > (Assuming putting dual form on 2 can mainyain some bacward
> > > > compatibility)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Niv
> > >
> > > As for now it looks clear to me that Hebrew language needs at least
> > > the dual form to be added. Even if dual form usually will be the
> > > same as the plural we need a mechanism and leave it to the translators
> > > whether they use it in particular cases or not.
> > >
> > > Now it's not clear to me what you mean about the "many" form.
> > > You wrote that it is correct not to use this form but it would
> > > be nicer to have it. If it would be nice then let's be nice,
> > > using more plural forms is not beyond our abilities! But for
> > > now I don't understand where the "many" form should be used:
> > >
> > > * for the numbers: 20, 30, 40, ..., 100, 110, 120, ...
> > > or
> > > * for the numbers: 11, 12, 13, ..., 99, 100, 101, ...
> > >
> > > As long as it's clear that dual number is necessary and it's
> > > not clear whether and when the "many" number is necessary
> > > I suggest adding the dual number rule and not adding the "many"
> > > number yet. As far as I understood, missing dual number is
> > > incorrect while missing "many" number is not.
> > >
> > > Although previously I referred to this formula: [1]
> > >
> > > nplurals=3; plural=n==1 ? 0 : (n>2||n==0) ? 1 : 2;
> > >
> > > now I'd suggest this one as more readable:
> > >
> > > nplurals=3; plural=n==1 ? 0 : n==2 ? 2 : 1;
> > >
> > > Niv, is this order of the translated strings what you want:
> > >
> > > msgstr[0] "Singular form"
> > > msgstr[1] "Plural form (including zero)"
> > > msgstr[2] "Dual form"
> > >
> > > Can we have this formula for now?
> > >
> > > For the record, here [2] is a formula for Hebrew according to
> > > what CLDR curently says:
> > >
> > > nplurals=4; plural=(n == 1) ? 0 : ((n == 2) ? 1 : (((n < 0 || n > 10)
> > > && n %
> > > 10 == 0) ? 2 : 3))
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Rafal
> > >
> > >
> > > [1] https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/tree/po/he.po
> > > [2] http://mlocati.github.io/cldr-to-gettext-plural-rules/
> > > > --
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> >
>
>
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