Monday, September 12, 2016

Re: IRC SIG needs external oversight

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 02:33:38 -0000
Máirín Duffy <> wrote:

> Hi,
> > On Sat, 10 Sep 2016 13:33:07 -0000
> > Ben (aka kk4ewt, Southern_Gentlem) is an op in #fedora-meeting and
> > baned him with this before the ban.
> > Jul 15 20:13:30 <kk4ewt> gnokii, when you get your network fixed
> > let me know
> Maybe it's a cultural thing on my part, but that reads as a bit
> passive-aggressive to me.

I don't think it was intended that way, but yeah, it could be more
detailed and neutral.

> The only way he could "fix" his network would be to move to another
> country. Is that a reasonable option? Being in a country where
> reliable internet is affordable and easy (for the most part) to come
> by is certainly a position of privilege so I understand not grokking
> that right away, but if Fedora is to be inclusive and diverse, we
> should probably be more understanding of these types of situations.
> If it had been a less-established contributor, they may have felt
> pretty unwelcome and perhaps not came back. :-/

Well, or setting up a bouncer (there's free ones) or just joining when
they are active on the channels they are.

I agree we should be more understanding once we know the situation...

> The meeting in question was on a Tues or Wed in August IIRC. It may
> not have been in a -meeting channel, it could have been in -websites
> or -apps; it was regarding the website. I thought it was in
> -meeting-* tho.

As far as I can tell they were only banned in #fedora-meeting and

> Sure, if you have a client that has joins/parts turned on and very
> visible, I could see that being annoying (then again, we have a bot
> on in most of our channels that by default spews out fedmsg datadumps
> en masse in the non-meeting channels, and those aren't join/part msgs
> they are real messages, so what's worse?)

Well, they provide information that the people in the channels wanted.

> gnokii has been in Cambodia for probably a year now, maybe longer? So
> it's not like this was a sudden issue necessitating an instant ban to
> deal with. It's not too hard to get someone's email address
> using .fasinfo, and sending them a politely-worded message explaining
> the situation.
> But that didn't happen, as I understand it.


> To be fair, though, I do think reading through some of the
> controversial things that have popped up over the years, that maybe
> slower reactions and more deliberation before typing could have
> avoided a lot of those situations and a lot of the misunderstandings
> that led to them escalating.

Perhaps so, but I think thats always the case.

On Sat, 10 Sep 2016 21:54:10 +0200
Robert Mayr <> wrote:

> Totally agree with you Máirín.
> @kevin: as I said already to Ben, people who get annoyed by bouncing
> in and out can silent these messages (as I do) and meeting logs don't
> care about system messages either. So I didn't understand this
> unfriendly behaviour.

Well, sure they can... but it's not the default in most (all?) clients.

> Máirín's proposal also seems good to me, we should at least try this
> way instead of silent the user (in this specific case be) and pass
> over it again. I never saw the necessity to OP fedora contributor
> channels, sometimes discussions go personal, but most contributors
> know each other, so there is always a line nobody has passed so far.

It's rare to need ops in most Fedora channels, but it does happen.
People dropping in spewing racist junk or flooding the channel or
deliberately trying to cause problems.

> I don't have a specific idea for the #fedora channel, but people who
> join there often use IRC the first time.
> Instead of banning people for bouncing in and out, OPs should care
> about unpolite users or offensive trolls. We need to ban them, not
> contributors who have problems with their Internet connection.

Sure. (and noting again, this was not #fedora).

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 09:53:30 +0530
Parag Nemade <> wrote:

> Maybe we need some new people in IRC SIG who can be spending more
> time in those channels which comes under them and be more and more
> communicative to users rather just taking direct actions on those
> users just because they feel themselves too busy with other tasks.

Sure! Where are these people? ;)

Helping people in IRC can be a pretty thankless job...


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